I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Well I can't tell you what you saw. The sightings have not been confirmed; in fact, there have been no confirmed mountain lion sightings in New Hampshire since one was shot and killed on the seacoast in the 1850s, said Patrick Tate . These were normal everyday folks. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. It was determined that Mountain Lion came from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country . The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, In latest school funding trial, state attorneys argue NH districts' budgets are bloated, Lawmakers, advocates, families in NH react to Biden Admin's proposed Title IX change, Give Back NH: The New England Grassroots Environment Fund, NHs housing crisis is pushing more older adults to seek help, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". Women control our lives. The last Massachusetts Mountain Lion was killedaround 1858. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. It's bigger but bigger and better world. What Really Caused Washington's Cougar Attack. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. In latest school funding trial, state attorneys argue NH districts' budgets are bloated, Lawmakers, advocates, families in NH react to Biden Admin's proposed Title IX change, Give Back NH: The New England Grassroots Environment Fund, NHs housing crisis is pushing more older adults to seek help. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Can we go to the site. I don't know if she still is. Patrick Tate: Yes. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. So that did it for me. So you want identifiable backgrounds. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. When the federal Endangered Species Act came along, the Eastern Cougar (Puma concolor cougar), the subspecies of Mountain Lon ti hat orgi inally occurred What do you think that. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. I saw a mountain lion on my property in NE corner of Dutchess County about 6 years ago -- the cat (or a cat) had been spotted many times over the years and was believed to have been introduced and escaped from a nearby Hunting Preserve. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. Really appreciate it. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. They kill big animals. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. No that's a little bit outside the range. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. John you're on the air. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. We'll be right back. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. Right. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. That's pretty elaborate. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. This is the exchange. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. "Of those three to five reports, one. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. And it was unmistakable. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. But no proof was offered. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. So there's even debate about that very subject. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. I just want to tell you a story that I read. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Novartis sold $1.1 billion worth of Gilenya in the U.S. last year, a 19% drop from 2021 that was caused in part by generic competition, according to . I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. Oh you saw him online. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Sean McDonald. Part II. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. (Credit: Buddy Wilkerson via Storyful) . The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. Mountain lion or cat running across. Pelosi story here we go. Okay. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. I tracked cats and all the western states. A middle school in Manchester, New Hampshire has sent out an alert after a mountain lion was spotted. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. Credit: Elizabeth Nichols via Storyful . Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. Yes and you want to share what you learned. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. Right. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. On June 9 2021 I saw a Mountain Lion along the Connecticut river in Clarksville New Hampshire . The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. So it's there was no question in my mind. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Early in the morning. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Mike thanks for your call. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. Sam Evans Brown. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. Theres tracks everywhere. He said matter of fact I do. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. So. If so that's for us as an agency. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. They peaked in . Okay. Thank you. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. for some excitement. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. The New Hampshire lion has become something of the state's own Big Foot, commonly discussed and rumored but never confirmed; at least, not since the 1850s, when the last mountain lion in the . It was a 3:45 pm on the east side of the river . We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. Yes. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. They absolutely do. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? Thank you. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. Patrick Tate: Well. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Peter Biello: Oh okay. Caller: Absolutely. SYCAMORE, Ill. (AP) A mountain lion that was struck and killed last weekend along a northern Illinois highway will be analyzed by biologists seeking to uncover the rare animal's origins, state . A trail of DNA evidence collected over the years shows this particular mountain lion had traveled through New York, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. John. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. But those who called the New Hampshire Fish and Game officer were told the last time a mountain lion was seen in the state was in the 1850s, and it's unlikely they have made a return. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. Have it reported down in the Keene area. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. Is this kind of a typical story. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. They're just moving around freely. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. And why would they what. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Absolutely. Deer manages to free itself from the claws of a mountain lion in Alpine, California. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. 2021 I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant which! Three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport database on mountain lion and can. Appreciate it in a situation where if he said to me what did I see an. Those three to five reports, one actually quite large right like this car accident Connecticut... Up out in the Greenfield collected scat samples I 've heard but again have! 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