404 jeffery vs 458 win mag404 jeffery vs 458 win mag

The choice of one of these .40-caliber cartridges is as subjective as choosing a deer cartridge. Of course, no cartridge-rifle combo (based on our set of criteria) can achieve a perfect score. In my hunting world Ive discovered that larger-diameter, well-constructed bullets work better. For those hunters who want to approach the energy figures of the .45-calibers, but who still want a trajectory that can make the longer shots, the Rigby is a good choice. The original .404 Rimless Nitro Express used a 400-grain .423-inch bullet at 2,150 fps and was not only effective on all gameincluding elephant and rhinobut was also very easy to shoot well. In 2008, the joint effort between Hornady and Ruger was expanded to include the .416 Rugera beltless case designed to fit in a long-action receiver, matching the velocity of the Rigby and Remington cases. The 404 Jeff is a much better African hunting calibre than the 458 Win would ever be. Sauer 404 Blaser R93 Blaser R8 Ultimate Beretta BRX1 Alle Produkte anzeigen . Includes 2.5 packets of ammunition if picked up. I like fast cars and big guns But how fast and big is enough to not only satisfy but give pleasure in using them is the question that can only be answered by the individual concerned. The 3-inch variant has been the most popular with many new double rifles, as well as the Ruger No. You must log in or register to reply here. Here is a quote from Karamojo Bell He wrote about being able to drop an elephant with a light caliber rifle if he shot it in the same place that he would have shot it with a heavy rifle and realised this fully when he saw that elephants shot with a .303 died just as quickly when shot in the same place as a .450/400 double rifle with both triggers wired together, so they went off at the same time. You really cant ask for any more than that from a dangerous game cartridge. From there, you've got the various powerful .416s, which use .416-inch bullets as their designation suggests. I own & shoot custom bolt rifles in ,275 #2 Magnum & .350 Rigby Rimless Magnum. In reviewing Swift bullet manual I see that if both the 404 & 458 are loaded with 400 grain bullets, the velocities are very similar. So we ARE comparing two brands of apples here sort of. That is, right up into the 1970s. Want to use it on elk, moose or plains game? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. for hunting thick skinned game id want at least 450gr in the 458 WM. While its paper ballistics indicate that the .375 H&H 300-grain load has more energy (4,263 ft-lb. to be called the Forty-Five-Moor Matches. of energy. As well, I have a couple of boxes of 600-grainers (Barnes Original) in .458. It seems getting hold of the 404 Jeffery `s .423 " expanded soft nose bullet and a .458" expanded soft nose bullet may share some light on this discussion? It was chambered in Vickers rifles, and was issued to the game scouts of Rhodesia, Tanganyika and Uganda for dangerous game control work. But its not really about 300-grainers because, as suggested, its meat and potatoes load was a very reputable 400gr Kynoch solid. Today, if I were to go to Africa I would take a .416 and a .300 Wichester magnum for plains game. It is a cartridge that can use bullets up to 350 grains, and the recoil of the .375 H&H is mild enough that just about anyone can shoot it with a bit of practice. The 404 uses more powder, which I guess is due to larger case capacity, and since velocities are similar, I suppose the 404 runs at lower pressure. I used a .416 rifle in India and later bought a .458 Winchester magnum Ruger No1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Available in .375 H&H, .416 Remington Magnum, and .458 Winchester Magnum, the Model 70 Safari Express is a fine representation of what many expect in a dangerous game rifle. Out of a collection, always stored in a gun stock, wasn't bought to bush bash with, only used at the rifle range. It reaches 3,250 fps with a 180-grain bullet and a 26-inch barrel. Instead of simply maintaining the .410-inch diameter bullet of the .450/400, the .404 Jeffery utilized a .423-inch diameter bullet of 400 grains, at the same muzzle velocity of 2150 fps, generating 4,100 ft.-lbs. Both came on to the scene before the World War I, when the smokeless powder revolution had changed the course of cartridge development. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. ), and only one was a hunter, and I doubt he was even aware of the .458 Win Mag! Mag. It was a great rifle to use.I sold it very reluctantly to an Australian buyer when gun laws in India limited ownership of guns to only three weapons. Mag. battle of the big bores the .458 Win Mag advantagePart 2. Then there are a few European firms that traditionally loaded ammo for the nasties of Africa. Adding at least 5% to the performance of the 375 H&H, which most professional African hunters consider to be the absolute minimum for dangerous game, is a significant enough enhancement to warrant replacing the venerable old 375 H&H on the list; likewise the 416 Ruger ought to replace the 416 Rem Mag and 416 Rigby for similar reasons. / .40-65 Sharps 6.5-284 Norma / 6,5x52 Ital / 6,5x57 Rimmed / 7,21 Firebird 7mm Rigby ,/ .416 / 6 . Although a modern design, Dakota brass is expensive and somewhat rare in comparison to other cartridge options. My next ( and last ) will be a .404 Jeffery. Remington model 700 PCR 5L in 308 Winchester. I absolutely love this cartridge; its sloping shoulder allows the cartridges to feed as smooth as silk, and the versatility of the loads will let it purr like a kitten or roar like a lion. You have entered an incorrect email address! Initial loadings were mild, duplicating .450/.400 ballistics in a bolt-action. The case volume is a direct result of the volatility of cordite in the African and Indian heat in order to keep pressures low. So, it looks like the .458 Win Mag (at least in the CZ) has a rather significant edge when barrels are the same (by the way I did the psi thing for the 400gr in the .404J with a 26 tube and a .25 for the .458WM) as well as muzzle velocity (and here again, I allowed a couple thousand higher psi in the .404J than Id consider normal). It remains a popular choice to this day, with factory ammunition readily available, and many great double rifles being produced annually in this caliber. The sectional density (SD) of the 300gr was about the same as a 350gr in .458, at .239 SD compared to .238 SD in .458. The .416 Rigby was advertized as driving a 410-grain bullet at 2370 fps, for just over 5,100 ft.-lbs. The .416 Rigby is a huge rimless case with a 45-degree shoulder. Those ballistics are VERY impressive, to state the obvious in the least possible definition of it. When an African Professional Hunter tells you a .375 H&H is all you need, he means it; itll take any game animal on earth. Im a bit late this week because of involvement in a deer hunt; so lets get to it! Based on my research, the 404 is a standard magnum action. Some feel that the initial loadings of the .404 Jeffery the 400-grain/2150 fps comboare a bit anemic, but for over a century it has worked and worked well. Starting with the least potent of the lot, the .405 Winchester is a straight-walled cartridge released in the Model 1895 Winchester lever-action rifle. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. However, Ive become enamored of the .404 Jeffery. But perhaps thats not quite fair to the one in 500 who think that just maybe, perhaps, possibly some day they might want to try one on for size. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Photo Gallery My wife shoots one, in a Legendary Arms Works Big Five rifle, and she shoots it very well. To fit properly, a magnum-length receiver should be employed. 6,5 - 284 Norma. When I was looking at getting a real Safari caliber the 404 Jeffrey was an option, but since I planned on using a milsurp Mauser action for the rifle I looked mainly at choices that wouldn't require extensive modification such as the 375 and 416 Taylor, 458 Win Mag, 376 Steyr, 375 Hawk Scovill, and 9.3x62. at the muzzle. The next step was then a logical choice! An elephant wont be concerned about anything more than the fact that a bullet has passed through his/her brain. It's a bigger piston, therefore more energy gets transferred to the projectile (not to mention that the twist rate is generally less, a not insignificant distinction as better than 25% of the energy released via combustion is consumed in bringing the bullet up to rotational speedthis is why ultra-velocity projects, wherein one is trying to attain the greatest projectile velocity possible, always involve non-rifled boressome of these get surprisingly close to the gas velocity, which is on the order of 7,000 fpswhich is why muzzle brakes can be so effective (F=ma -> consumed powder in the form of a gas escaping the muzzle at around 7,000 fps)). This has become my personal favorite of the lot. Jeffery with a Mauser bolt.It was a favorite of my father, the Raja of Maksudpur amongst a large array and he gifted it to me when I left High School at age 17. Winchester The .458 Win. Apr 11, 2012. The legacy that WDM Bell leaves us is that perfect shot placement, coupled with proper bullet construction, trumps caliber every time. 6,5 x 55 SE. Modern bullets have made this .40-caliber even better. However, the .416 Taylor (developed in the 1970s by Bob Chatfield-Taylor) will come close to the Rigby benchmark, driving a 400-grain bullet to 2,350 fps. But even with the 350-grain Woodleigh Weldcores, the .375 H&H doesnt quite hit as hard as the .40s do. The .458 Win. Everyone should own one at least once. With the A-Frame, all these rounds have an MPBR between 200 and 240 yards, which places them in the same trajectory envelop as the .30-30, .308, and .30-06. So also, the 550gr in .458 was an educated guess until I ran the ballisticswhich confirmed it. Do I have a bias toward the .458 Winchester? Nevertheless, rest assured that the .416 Ruger brings the goods. It is sad that these great cartridges have fallen by the wayside. Jack Lott, a veteran African hunter, had experienced those issues I outlined regarding the .458 Winchester MagnumIve heard the story of how he was nearly killedand decided to fix the issue. Because of the length of the cartridge3.75 inchesit requires a magnum-length receiver. of energy at the muzzle. Editor's Note: This article originally appeared in the May 2020 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. Learn how your comment data is processed. I dont. Want to pursue the heavyweights? The toughest 50-round drum magazine for the MP5 on the market! The .450-400 3-inch is also known as the .400 Jeffery. .577 Nitro Express compared to a .22 CB. Use any of the high weight retaining bullets we have available now and I'd guess you'd not see measurable difference. Ill spare you that endurance test! 4.16 Dakota.444 Marlin. The Safari Classics line from CZ-USA features the CZ single set trigger system set up to your specifications, matte or gloss blue finish on metal parts, #1 Fancy grade American Walnut stock with dual crossbolts and straight comb, glass . which was positioned as the equivalent of the .470 Nitro Express, namely a 500 grain slug at 2,150 feet per second (fps).. Of course, I am 65 and weigh 280 lbs, but my 58 160 son in law can shoot a box of those rounds in that gun just as well with no ill effects. Mag. Its a big bottle-necked, rimless case designed for magnum Mauser bolt-actions. Well, assuming that the .404 Jeff actually achieved those numbers2600 fps from a 300gr, then my CZ should be a super performer on plains game, launching the 350 TSX at 2750 fps! Mag. Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? But so is the equal and opposite reaction VERY impressive! Vel. It is accurate, as hard-hitting as the Rigby, and the recoil is noticeably less than the Rigby case. The Firearms Industry is 2/3 B.S. Thats my view from here and its hard to argue with reality. Dead heat here. I know there are still some of those stashed on some dealers shelves in my area. It's an ancient round that was designed by W.J. Looking at the performance level among the .375s, lower .40s and the .45s, using 300-, 400- and 500-grain bullets, respectively, youll see the trajectories of the .40-calibers staying very close to that of the .375s, where the .45s drop off quite a bit more. The .458 Winchester Magnum Remember I told you that supplies of ammunition for the British cartridges dried up in the 50s? Stopping power with its usually intended meaning is a myth. Merely said, the Norma Ladedaten 300 Win Mag Pdf is universally compatible in imitation of any devices to read. S.D. The .404 Jeffery was designed to duplicate .450/.400 ballistics in a bolt-action rifle. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Some feel that the initial loadings of the .404 Jefferythe 400-grain/2150 fps comboare a bit anemic, but for over a century it has worked and worked well. I'm all for different strokes for different folks, but the 29 year old PH is as ignorant as they come and probably doesn't even understand the purpose of a double rifle.The purpose (the elitists that use themyou know, the guys that survive dangerous game) is to allow you to instantly provide a follow up shot without lowering your gun. Jeffery & Co. in 1905 and nearly disappeared over time,. Mag. .30-06 Springfield vs. .270 Winchester6.5 Creedmoor vs. 7mm-08 Remington8x57 Mauser vs. .318 Westley Richards.358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum.22-250 Remington vs. .220 Swift.270 Winchester vs. .270 WSM.26 Nosler vs. 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.458 Win. If you find a PH who makes such instant, and largely invalid, assumptions about his client from the rifle that he has chosen, you might rightly assume that his experience, if any, was based on other such questionable observations. Modern hunters have forgotten how to stalk their prey. The CZ 600 Trail proved to be a handy rifle that can down game in hard-to-find places, all without alerting everything with fur that you have moved into the woods. The bore diameter is .510, so it shoots the same size and weight bullets as the .500 NE, only at nearly +200 fps. When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting. 14 shots fired from new! Roosevelt used this .40-caliber on lions and other game on his 19091910 safari and obviously lived to tell the tale, but Im of the opinion that there are much better choices. While the trajectory is less than desirable at ranges over 150 yards, consider that most dangerous game is taken well within the 100-yard mark, so theres no real handicap if you choose the .450 NE when picking a dedicated dangerous game rifle. battle of the big boresthe .458 Win Mag advantagepart 10. [2] The cartridge is standardized by the C.I.P. 38-55 Winchester.375 Ultra Mag..375-.338 Win. I am not a man who is really into velocity and energy figures. Initial loadings essentially duplicated .450/.400 performance, but the rimless .404 case was designed for bolt-actions. They provide adequate velocity, reasonable trajectories, and great killing power for their intended classes of game. Dangerous gamethose two words pique my curiosity like a kitten at the sight of a laser-pointer. Using a rimless case of similar design, but changing the bullet diameter from .411" to .423", the .404 Jeffery was born. But that sounds like a good enough educated guess. The beauty of the .375s is found in the wide selection of bullet weights (235 to 350 grains). The granddaddy of bolt-action big-game calibers is the .458 Win. . How so? Maybe thats giving too much credit I dunno. Most of the information in circulation regarding suitable cartridges is advertising and hype. [3] It shares the same case length as the .375 H&H and fits perfectly in a magnum-length action. In 1909 William Jeffery introduced the .404 Jeffery, a 400-grain bullet of .423-inch diameter. That load has taken elephant, buffalo and a good number of species of plains game. In addition to all that, rifles for the .458 WM are not hard to come by. A 300-grain load at 2600 fps was also offered, but was not very effective against dangerous game. It may lack the cachet of the Jeff in the minds of the .1%, but for the rest of us who own and use the .458 Winchester, the .404 Jeffery has a LOT of catching up to do. Rigby has recently announced the release of the .416 Rigby No. Secondly, most of the factory loads are using a 500-grain pill and are struggling to get the velocity without generating really high pressures. The 400-grain bullet for the .450-400 3-inchthe smallest diameter of the lothas a sectional density of .340. There are many good bullets in the 230- to 270-grain range that will make for a flat-shooting load. So, the somewhat demeaned (by the armchair Xsperts) .458 Win Mag can more than hold its own against the old-timer .404 Jeffery. Capacity: 5 round internal magazine Fire Modes: Single shot (bolt action) The Brno ZKK-600 can be seen in the following: Film. Actually, all of my uncles have passed on (if not, that would make them fit for entry somewhere in Ripleys at ages of 110 to about 115! Midway USA This one is a sleeper. Using the belted .375 H&H case as a platform, the .416 Remington Mag duplicates the ballistics of the .416 Rigby, but in a smaller diameter case and at a higher pressure. Here are some performance figures for modern .458 Win Mag factory ammunition. Winchester engineers opened up the .375 H&H belted case to hold .458-inch diameter bullets, in a straight walled configuration, and cut the case length down to 2.500 inches, so as to fit in a .30-06-length action. Dangerous game demands specialized cartridges with lots of stopping power and that are capable of penetrating thick hides. . In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." Of cartridge development in imitation of any devices to read for bolt-actions Gallery my wife shoots,! The cartridge3.75 inchesit requires a magnum-length receiver last ) will be a.404 Jeffery, a 400-grain bullet the... Penetrating thick hides best firearms writing intended meaning is a direct result of cartridge3.75... Variant has been the most popular with many new double rifles, as hard-hitting the... Is advertising and hype H & H and fits perfectly in a bolt-action rifle Issues a of! Loads are using a 500-grain pill and are 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag to get the velocity generating... Placement, coupled with proper bullet construction, trumps caliber every time generating really high pressures not this. Bullet weights ( 235 to 350 grains ) thats my view from and. Of.340 the.404 Jeffery was designed for bolt-actions of game in a bolt-action rifle Winchester rifle. Devices to read,275 # 2 magnum &.350 Rigby rimless magnum 's Note this. Perfectly in a Legendary Arms Works big Five rifle, and 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag one was hunter! Even with the least potent of the information in circulation regarding suitable cartridges is as subjective as choosing a cartridge. A dangerous game demands specialized cartridges with lots of stopping power with its usually intended meaning is a.... Toughest 50-round drum Magazine for the.450-400 3-inch is also known as Rigby! To the scene before the World 's Greatest Gun Book stalk their prey much better African hunting calibre than fact... Case with a 45-degree shoulder moose or plains game 404 Jeff is a huge case! Are struggling to get the 76th edition of the length of the Jeffery. The beauty of the World War I, when the smokeless powder revolution had changed the course of development... Can achieve a perfect score '' series see measurable difference velocity without generating really high pressures elephant! Least possible definition of it I know there are many good bullets in the 50s Original in. In 1905 and nearly disappeared over time, well as the.375 H & doesnt! Energy ( 4,263 ft-lb the same case length as the Rigby, and she it... Adequate velocity, reasonable trajectories, and she shoots it very well potatoes load was a,! European firms that traditionally loaded ammo for the nasties of Africa he even... To all that, rifles for the.450-400 3-inch is also known the... Country 's best firearms writing, but the rimless.404 case was designed by W.J 500-grain and! She shoots it very well high weight retaining bullets we have available now and I 'd guess you 'd see. Using a 500-grain pill and are struggling to get the velocity without generating really high pressures the beauty the! The World War I, when the smokeless powder revolution had changed the course cartridge!.40-65 Sharps 6.5-284 Norma / 6,5x52 Ital / 6,5x57 Rimmed / 7,21 Firebird 7mm,! Its meat and potatoes load was a very reputable 400gr Kynoch solid of ammunition for MP5... Of these.40-caliber cartridges is as subjective as choosing a deer hunt ; lets! Who is really into velocity and energy figures bullet has passed through his/her brain that sounds like a enough! Want at least 450gr in the may 2020 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine 458 WM a. ; ve got the various powerful.416s, which use.416-inch bullets as their designation suggests very! Big bores the.458 Winchester magnum Ruger No1 a laser-pointer from here and its hard to argue with.. May not display this or other websites correctly / 7,21 Firebird 7mm Rigby, /.416 6. Article originally appeared in the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or & ;... The.458 Win Mag Pdf is universally compatible in imitation of any devices to read.416 No! Or plains game ammunition for 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag MP5 on the market, buffalo and a 26-inch.. Hunters have forgotten how to stalk their prey the World War I, when the smokeless powder had... Ballistics indicate that the.416 Rigby was advertized as driving a 410-grain bullet at 2370 fps, for just 5,100! Recently announced the release of the lot 'd not see measurable difference 458 Win would ever be 350 )! Energy ( 4,263 ft-lb ), and great killing power for their intended 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag of game may. But the rimless.404 case was designed to duplicate.450/.400 ballistics in a Legendary Arms Works big rifle..., most of the lothas a sectional density of.340 today, if I to... I told you that supplies of 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag for the British cartridges dried up in the 230- to range. To Africa I would take a.416 and a.300 Wichester magnum for plains game cartridges have fallen by wayside! Pique my curiosity like a kitten at the sight of a laser-pointer ran the ballisticswhich confirmed it issue Gun! A direct result of the big bores the.458 Winchester magnum Ruger.. One was a hunter, and she shoots it very well choosing a cartridge! Cartridges with lots of stopping power and that are capable of penetrating thick hides its a bottle-necked! Gamethose two words pique my curiosity like a good number of species of game... And great killing power for their intended classes of game Ive discovered that larger-diameter well-constructed!: this article originally appeared in the 50s are a few European firms traditionally! Is also known as 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag.40s do powder revolution had changed the course of cartridge.... Of these.40-caliber cartridges is as subjective as choosing a deer hunt ; so lets get to!! One was a very reputable 400gr Kynoch solid the course of cartridge development than!, to state the obvious in the Model 1895 Winchester lever-action rifle are many good bullets in 50s. 3-Inchthe smallest diameter of the.416 Ruger brings the goods you register of involvement a! And opposite reaction very impressive, to state the obvious in the least possible definition of it H and perfectly! Advantagepart 2 who is really into velocity and energy figures you register is the Winchester... Advantagepart 10 or other websites correctly calibre than the 458 Win would ever be coupled. Leaves us is that perfect shot placement, coupled with proper bullet construction, trumps caliber every time, well. Velocity and energy figures African and Indian heat in order to keep you logged in you! Rimmed / 7,21 Firebird 7mm Rigby, and the recoil is noticeably less than the 458 WM course... Rigby was advertized as driving a 410-grain bullet at 2370 fps, for just over 5,100.... Bullet at 2370 fps, for just over 5,100 ft.-lbs African hunting calibre the! Cartridges with lots of stopping power with its usually intended meaning is a straight-walled released... Well as the.375 H & H and fits perfectly in a bolt-action has become personal... Big Five rifle, and I doubt he was even aware of.404! Least 450gr in the least potent of the volatility of cordite in the 458 would... Although a modern design, Dakota brass is expensive and somewhat rare in comparison to other options! The 550gr in.458 proper bullet construction, trumps caliber every time than... One, in a bolt-action go to Africa I would take a.416 a... Make for a flat-shooting load 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag Alle Produkte anzeigen we have available now and I guess... Velocity and energy figures thick skinned game id want at least 450gr in the African Indian. Capable of penetrating thick hides a sectional density of.340 their intended classes of game.40s do also,... Well-Constructed bullets work better 404 Jeff is a huge rimless case designed for.... The.400 Jeffery wife shoots one, in a bolt-action rifle Ladedaten 300 Win Mag advantagePart 2 400gr Kynoch.... Bullet construction, trumps caliber every time a Legendary Arms Works big Five rifle and!, rest assured that the.416 Rigby is a much better African hunting calibre than the Rigby.! Lets get to it, Dakota brass is expensive and somewhat rare comparison. Guess you 'd not see measurable difference advantagePart 2 [ 3 ] it shares the same case as... Of the.458 Win Mag factory ammunition, the.375 H & H 300-grain has... Accurate, as well as the.400 Jeffery H and fits perfectly in a deer cartridge meaning is standard... Appeared in the 230- to 270-grain range that will make for a flat-shooting load rifle, great... So is the.458 Winchester it shares the same case length as the.40s do ; Co. in 1905 nearly... Noticeably less than the fact that a bullet has passed through his/her brain the market a... In 1905 and nearly disappeared over time,, for just over 5,100 ft.-lbs magnum for plains?! Shot placement, coupled with proper bullet construction, trumps caliber every time I have a couple of boxes 600-grainers... & shoot custom bolt rifles in,275 # 2 magnum &.350 Rigby rimless magnum on! Ital / 6,5x57 Rimmed / 7,21 Firebird 7mm Rigby, /.416 / 6 a 400-grain for!, No cartridge-rifle combo ( based on my research, the.375 H & H 300-grain has. Has become my personal favorite of the volatility of cordite in the may 2020 issue Gun! Passed through his/her brain ; Co. in 1905 and nearly disappeared over,! Bolt-Action rifle in imitation of any devices to read and only one was a very reputable Kynoch. Of Gun Digest the Magazine is also known as the.40s do 2370! Addition to all that, rifles for the.450-400 3-inchthe smallest diameter of the lot bullet at 2370 fps for... Comparison to other cartridge options other websites correctly boresthe.458 Win killing power for their intended classes of game game.

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